tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558712462088910728.post7222136179400679482..comments2023-02-22T01:10:31.119-08:00Comments on Being Queer and Coptic: Bishop Suriel and the Gay AgendaJust A Dudehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10607094231556874706noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558712462088910728.post-79142039682931034022010-11-06T06:32:36.411-07:002010-11-06T06:32:36.411-07:00Regarding your question regarding gay saints: fo...Regarding your question regarding gay saints: for the most part we are not informed about the psychology and sexuality of any of our saints, unless they were married, and even then, that doesn't say much about what their sexual orientations were. <br /><br />We do know, however, that there were many female saints who lived their lives as men. We do know of saints who had deep affectionate love for members of their own gender, and I am in no way claiming that the nature of those relationships were sexual,in fact they probably were not sexual in nature. and I don't think it's relevant either way, however I am suggesting that there are saints who have found their deepest human to human love with the same sex. yeah, these are bold claims, but do your research, you'll be surprised what you find.<br /><br /> But we never call into question the morality of their acts, since their motivation was to serve God. For the most part, we know many of the saints had taken vows of celibacy, and we know about their works of service, miracles, and martyrdom, but we know very little else about them. And I think that's the point, those other details, I believe do not matter. The saints were canonized because of their examples of sacrificial love which stood out among the masses. What they were attracted to, who they may have fallen in love with, all these things kind of pale in comparison to the fact that they lived out the gospel. However the Bible does say we are all saints, justified by the love of God. <br /><br />I respect and honor your desires for a more open community and love for all people. You are among the few in our community who would love a gay child no matter what, it really humbles me to hear that. Whether or not you personally agree that homosexuality is right or wrong, we need more people like you who are able to have dialogue and at least engage with us. Thanks for reading, brother/sister.Just A Dudehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10607094231556874706noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558712462088910728.post-76263979858994712682010-11-06T01:30:32.027-07:002010-11-06T01:30:32.027-07:00With all due respect I ask why we do not have exam...With all due respect I ask why we do not have examples of homosexual saints- people who have, as the above commenters recommended, fought their desires to the grave? If we do, why are we not told about them? In any case we are not given a choice as to whether we will love gay people: we are to love everyone. Do we reject or excommunicate people for other sins? Not often. It makes me sad that we can't at least be more open about this. If I have a gay child, I will let him know he is loved no matter what.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558712462088910728.post-21902600076697860342010-11-05T05:03:00.136-07:002010-11-05T05:03:00.136-07:00There is a lot to respond to here so I will only t...There is a lot to respond to here so I will only take a few points:<br /><br />1) Thanks for reading and sharing your thoughts on the matter. <br /><br />2) I have a real hard time comparing homosexuality with pedophelia and bestiality. Pedophelia and Bestiality is a form of sexuality that has nothing to do with intimacy or love or the well being of anyone involved. In both cases, a child or an animal is having their will determined for them. A donkey does not have the communication skills to say whether or not it wants to engage in a sexual act with a human being, nor would that make any sense? Both cases involve a person, going after something that was not pursuing them, and then manipulating / forcing a sexual experience to occur. If that happens between a man and a woman, a man and a man, or even between a husband and his wife, I would say, that is wrong and indeed harmful.<br /><br />There is just too big an inequality there for such an act to be ok.<br /><br />3) Now - you compare homosexuality with such things, and even compare it to cancer. My problem with this is homosexuality is too broad a term, just as heterosexuality. What exactly are you speaking of? Is it a certain act? A certain relationship? A certain attraction? A certain physiological response? You have to be clear about this.<br /><br />And secondly, cancer kills a human being. One can say there are behaviors that kill the soul, but there is usually evidence to support such claims. Someone whose soul is dead, often knows it or there is some sort of quantifiable symptom, whether it be in overall attitude, peace, balance, ability to connect with God, ability to be in community, ability to serve, strength of character, etc… Tell me, my friend, what is the evidence of the "sinfulness" of homosexuality? And how do you explain the fact that there are people, myself included, who have been able to find true relationship with God once coming out? And how can a man or woman say that such a relationship with God is not genuine or true?<br /><br />I understand where you are coming from with a lot of your statements, however, I cannot agree. Life is full of difficulties and hardships, and my life is full of shortcomings and mistakes. But fighting homosexuality I've learned, is like trying to take down a wall in my house, with a tiny fork or hammer: a wall, that if chipped away at, may cause the roof to come down over my head. Your sexuality is a part of you, and a big part of your identity and how you relate to others, it's not as simple as "fight" or "Carry your cross" believe me, creating crosses is like playing God, and who are we to do such things?Just A Dudehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10607094231556874706noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558712462088910728.post-85009709081785548472010-11-04T20:51:08.980-07:002010-11-04T20:51:08.980-07:00Violence and descrimination against gay persons is...Violence and descrimination against gay persons is wrong, just as violence and descriminiation is wrong against adulteres, fornicators, or idolaters in the work place.<br /><br />But when it comes to Christianity, one can not call Himself an Orthodox Christian while accepting what both scriptures, the Church Fathers and all of Church Tradition condemns as clear sin and abomination, which are homosexual acts. The homosexual needs to bend his will to Christ's will and fight against homosexual desires, because they are agaisnt God's will, just like any other desire to sin, whether to fornicate, or have sex with children, or animals, or other peoples spouses, or to steal, or lie, or whatever the sin... all are sinful actions and should not be accepted as they lead to hell, but should be repented from. "You have not yet striven against sin to the point of bloodshed, says St. Paul. Do not be deceived, those who practice or condone homosexual acts will not inhereit the Kingdom of God. "Blessed are you if you are not condemned in what you approve." If I feel homosexuality is "natural", but the Holy Spirit, the Church, the Old Testament, and the New Testament clearly teach that it is an abomination, I will bend my will to God's will and I will not induldge in my fallen desires. I will carry my cross and walk according to God's will... for the glory of God. I will not call evil good and good evil. It is right and holy to condemn homosexual acts, without condemning or judging the sinner or homosexual person.<br /><br />Christ died for all sinners- all of us. It is not fitting then to defend the sins that he died to redeem us from. We can not defend homosexuality or homosexual acts. We respond to Christ's love for us, by condemning homosexual acts, fleeing from them, and carrying our cross, crucifying ourselves, for His sake. <br /><br />For many "gay" people, their life-long repentence (not necessarily a cure) but their fight against this sin until death, with Christ's grace, is their key or path to entering heaven, and their giving into it or excusing it or accepting or promoting it is the gate to the other place.<br /><br />Love is not love if it is not pure. A man who lies with another man... the Bible Calls this an abomination- in both old and new testaments. It calls this ungodly. Whatever the reason we feel we have to do it... if my fallen nature, whatever the casue... is an abomination... I live in my baptism... dead to myself and sin... alive in Christ... That's what baptism and Christianity means.<br /><br />That is the Orthodox Christian truth. God save us all, forgive us our sins, and lead us into the Truth.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558712462088910728.post-17579731794316733322010-11-04T20:35:55.977-07:002010-11-04T20:35:55.977-07:00Only persons struggling against homosexuality, rec...Only persons struggling against homosexuality, recognizing as part of the fallen nature that needs redemption can take communion and consider themselves Orthodox Christian... The faithful struggle against homosexual attraction, whatever the cause of it, until death, is a cross that leads to heaven. Like any of our fallen natures, under the guidance of your Father of Confession, and with taking communion, can one cope with this abnormality and live a holy life of repentance, as with any other sin. <br />As with cancer, you don't accept it, you fight it until death. No one ever says, cancer is normal for me, I accept it. No, it is a mutation that needs treatment, even if one eventally dies from the cancer, they fight it. But anyone who endorses, accepts, or promotes homosexuality, can not consider themselves Christian. Such would be an oxymoron. If I am a fornicator seeking repentence, there is a place for me in the Orthodox Church. If I am an adulterer seeking repentence and condemning adultery, there is a place for me in the Orthodox Church and in God's kingdom. If I am suffering from Homosexual desires and I am fighting against it because it is not God's will and I recognize it as part of the fallen nature, then I am on the right track. But if I accept any of these things and justify them or promote them... that I can't call myself Christian, because clearly God hates all these things, but is pleased when we struggle against sin, with His grace.<br /><br /><br />The Homosexual person, whether by choice, by mutation, or by any physical, psychological, biological, chemical, or psychosocial imbalance, whatever the reason... needs to realize that homosexuality is NOT God's plan and is therefore part of the fallen nature that the sufferer must fight against, like a person born with a predisposition to cancer and develops the disease. The person carries his cross and fights against it till death, just like any other sin or fallenness in nature. Everyone, gay or not, who wants to be a Christian MUST bend their will to the will of God.<br /><br />The Will of God is NEVER a homosexual lifestyle- this is condemned clearly in the Old Testament and the New Testament and by the Orthodox Church since its existence.<br /><br />Anyone who condones, accepts, or promotes any sinful lifestyle that is contrary to God's will and intention, contrary to holiness, should be excommunicated. <br /><br />There are persons suffering from this abberation, many of them confessed their sinful homosexual desires (whatever the cause) and are living a life bending their will to Christ's will and recognizing that something is wrong... God blesses them and helps them in their struggle, even a life-long cross. Such a person is lead to paradise by fighting the evil nature, the fallen nature, not accepting it... that is the Orthodox Christian.<br /><br />The same applies for any sin. The ONLY sexual relationship acceptable to God, and Sanctioned by His Orthodox Church is a between a man and a woman in the bonds of Holy Matrimony. The only other alternative for an Orthodox Christian is a pure and holy single life with friends and family, living in purity and holiness, carrying a cross.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558712462088910728.post-60021754470136675092010-11-04T20:25:54.882-07:002010-11-04T20:25:54.882-07:00The Homosexual person, whether by choice, by mutat...The Homosexual person, whether by choice, by mutation, or by any physical, psychological, biological, chemical, or psychosocial imbalance, whatever the reason... needs to realize that homosexuality is NOT God's plan and is therefore part of the fallen nature that the sufferer must fight against, like a person born with a predisposition to cancer and develops the disease. The person carries his cross and fights against it till death, just like any other sin or fallenness in nature. Everyone, gay or not, who wants to be a Christian MUST bend their will to the will of God.<br /><br />The Will of God is NEVER a homosexual lifestyle- this is condemned clearly in the Old Testament and the New Testament and by the Orthodox Church since its existence.<br /><br />Anyone who condones, accepts, or promotes any sinful lifestyle that is contrary to God's will and intention, contrary to holiness, should be excommunicated. <br /><br />There are persons suffering from this abberation, many of them confessed their sinful homosexual desires (whatever the cause) and are living a life bending their will to Christ's will and recognizing that something is wrong... God blesses them and helps them in their struggle, even a life-long cross. Such a person is lead to paradise by fighting the evil nature, the fallen nature, not accepting it... that is the Orthodox Christian.<br /><br />The same applies for any sin. The ONLY sexual relationship acceptable to God, and Sanctioned by His Orthodox Church is a between a man and a woman in the bonds of Holy Matrimony. The only other alternative for an Orthodox Christian is a pure and holy single life with friends and family, living in purity and holiness, carrying a cross.<br /><br />If I am attracted sexually to children (pedophelia), or animals (bestiality), or auto-eroticism (masturbation), or others of the same-gender (homosexuality), or sexual activity outside of marriage (fornication) or to other people's spouses (adultery)... all of these fall short of God's will and are an abomination, and lead to death and hell when acted upon without repentence, requiring repentence, struggle and come from our fallen nature and should be condemened and fought against, for the Glory of God as we partake of the Divine Nature.<br /><br />May the Lord enlighten us all to fight hard against sin, whatever its name, including homosexual desires. Those who approve of homosexual activity and practice such acts will not inherit the Kingdom of God, and nither will fornicators, adulterers, theives, drunkards, liars, idolaters, etc. Do not be deceived, focus on Christ and his call to purity.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558712462088910728.post-69944940183504447062010-10-16T20:54:25.271-07:002010-10-16T20:54:25.271-07:00I subscribed. Maybe that means I can get another f...I subscribed. Maybe that means I can get another follower on my blog, eh? (Nudge, nudge, nudge).<br /><br />Seriously though, good article. It's sooooo frustrating to hear people rant about the supposed "gay" agenda.<br /><br />I love your deconstruction. You may also want to be aware of another piece of anti-gay propaganda (probably the dumbest story you'll ever read, but I think it'd be good to get a deconstruction of it in those google results):<br /><br />http://www.oodegr.com/english/psyxotherap/crazy_john2.htm<br /><br /><br />Also, I think for a lot of people, Eastern Orthodox and Coptic the homophobia probably stems out of a larger view on sexuality. I've had to sit through the lectures of a Fr. Josiah Trenham (ooooohhhhhh so painful). I think the views he espouses which appear to be commonly accepted are part of the larger framework of what makes up a view of sexuality which is incompatible with homosexuality.<br /><br />http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/praxis/frjosiah_holycross06.aspxLeftmosthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01264352541547222243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558712462088910728.post-13414190765509712372010-08-29T13:53:39.310-07:002010-08-29T13:53:39.310-07:00Brilliant. Absolutely FULL of grace and truth.Brilliant. Absolutely FULL of grace and truth.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com